Kazerad: @Rick2tails: Rick! You are making a lot of comments comparing alt-right and nazis. I want to ask you not to fall into obvious traps!
Being a visible creator means I get to interact with people of every affiliation, and I know that a lot of people who wear the label "alt right" do not see themselves as nazis or even like nazis all that much. That changes, though, if we create a situation where they are conflated with nazis regardless, or in which actual neo-nazis are the only people willing to acknowledge the differences in their views. The result is that neo-nazis and the people who dislike neo-nazis are both fighting the same fight (assoctiate the alt-right with nazis), the result of which is more nazis.
Like, it's just the wrong angle to fight. You can criticize people's horrible ideas with without further encouraging them to take up nazi views. Neo-nazis can't facilitate a shift like that on their own, so they're counting on your help from people like you. It's better to deprive it.
MetalC0Mmander: @Kazerad: Sometime I wonder what do alt-right people that aren't completly racist are actually trying to fight for with that mouvement though.
Kazerad: @MetalC0Mmander: You can ask them! Actual people who take that position can probably answer questions about why they did so better than those looking from the outside.
My personal perception is that they're kind of like the Stormcloaks from Skyrim, where they don't see themselves as racist, just as having very strong feelings about Skyrim belonging to the Nords. While places heavily under their control do have serious racism problems, they take a live-and-let-live attitude about the other races when they keep to their own own lands (even though their closest neighbor has some serious problems and a lot of refugees with nowhere else to go). They think globalism is exploiting their country to benefit causes and people they don't care about, so they rally behind a charismatic leader who wants to pursue isolationism and fight foreign control, and who may or may not be a Thalmor plant.
MetalC0Mmander: @MetalC0Mmander: I guess they are trying to talk about the right wing values that can be acceptable in an inteligent maner and are getting associated or are associating themselves with that group. Although I will say that if the right wants to be heard more then they should be denouncing that group harder than they doing right now.
MetalC0Mmander: @Kazerad: Oh god no. I'm not asking them why they are indentifying with that mouvement. I feel like I'm going to break my computer in frustration if I try to is I have to listen to too many of the real scumbags.
As for the comparaison to Skyrim, I feel that's more populism than outright alt-right. But that's how I see it.
Kazerad: @MetalC0Mmander: I think they're instead banking on the assumption that their opponents will attack so many people and accuse them of being right-wing/nazis/whatever that they'll get a steady influx of supporters either way. Denouncing any of their supporters would just be a loss.
I mean, let's be honest: a lot of people probably sided with the Stormcloaks in Skyrim solely because the Imperials tried to execute you. I think most players wish Ulfric would do more about the racism in Windhelm, but have a much bigger problem with the Imperials and their guilt-by-association attitude - as your first few encounters with the Imperials are them making an example out of mostly-innocent people who unintentionally aided (or in your case, may have aided) the Stormcloaks. It's hard to take their side and feel like the hero, even if careful consideration probaby paints them as the better faction.
@MetalC0Mmander: I think it extends a bit further than pure populism! The views on isolationism, attitude toward racism, and even views on things like religion (stigmatization of Christianity vs stigmatization of Talos worship) are all very strong parallels to modern alt-right views. Even if we personally view them as different from the Stormcloaks, they see themselvesas having almost the same views, for the same reasons. It's a good lens by which to understand them.
Rick2tails: I`ll try to refrain from any political commentary here if its upsetting. I`ll just sum up I hold the alt right in a pretty low light and leave it at that and refrain from any further commentery.
Kazerad: @Rick2tails: I wouldn't say "upsetting"; I try to let political talk fly for the most part.
The alt-right/nazi thing just scares me because I can see the tactic at play, and people are falling for it. Two years from now people will be confused where all the new card-carrying neo-nazis came from, not realizing it was the effect their stigmas were designed to elicit.
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Being a visible creator means I get to interact with people of every affiliation, and I know that a lot of people who wear the label "alt right" do not see themselves as nazis or even like nazis all that much. That changes, though, if we create a situation where they are conflated with nazis regardless, or in which actual neo-nazis are the only people willing to acknowledge the differences in their views. The result is that neo-nazis and the people who dislike neo-nazis are both fighting the same fight (assoctiate the alt-right with nazis), the result of which is more nazis.
Like, it's just the wrong angle to fight. You can criticize people's horrible ideas with without further encouraging them to take up nazi views. Neo-nazis can't facilitate a shift like that on their own, so they're counting on your help from people like you. It's better to deprive it.
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My personal perception is that they're kind of like the Stormcloaks from Skyrim, where they don't see themselves as racist, just as having very strong feelings about Skyrim belonging to the Nords. While places heavily under their control do have serious racism problems, they take a live-and-let-live attitude about the other races when they keep to their own own lands (even though their closest neighbor has some serious problems and a lot of refugees with nowhere else to go). They think globalism is exploiting their country to benefit causes and people they don't care about, so they rally behind a charismatic leader who wants to pursue isolationism and fight foreign control, and who may or may not be a Thalmor plant.
As for the comparaison to Skyrim, I feel that's more populism than outright alt-right. But that's how I see it.
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I mean, let's be honest: a lot of people probably sided with the Stormcloaks in Skyrim solely because the Imperials tried to execute you. I think most players wish Ulfric would do more about the racism in Windhelm, but have a much bigger problem with the Imperials and their guilt-by-association attitude - as your first few encounters with the Imperials are them making an example out of mostly-innocent people who unintentionally aided (or in your case, may have aided) the Stormcloaks. It's hard to take their side and feel like the hero, even if careful consideration probaby paints them as the better faction.
@MetalC0Mmander: I think it extends a bit further than pure populism! The views on isolationism, attitude toward racism, and even views on things like religion (stigmatization of Christianity vs stigmatization of Talos worship) are all very strong parallels to modern alt-right views. Even if we personally view them as different from the Stormcloaks, they see themselvesas having almost the same views, for the same reasons. It's a good lens by which to understand them.
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The alt-right/nazi thing just scares me because I can see the tactic at play, and people are falling for it. Two years from now people will be confused where all the new card-carrying neo-nazis came from, not realizing it was the effect their stigmas were designed to elicit.
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I'm not, I just have a grip on reality. Both negative and positive.
...you are an artist backup.