bluedraggy: Aww. We were making headway too. But this is too damnably well done to argue with. Very nice. And tails? Bah. There's always something they can be hiding behind.
YeOldeCuckolde: @CaptainLackwit: 's lowres because I have this special AIDS that makes me create a huge canvas and then shit all over it with tiny sketches. Also murderous Katia is always hot, and she is going for that kiiiill
LuminosityXVII: @DOOMGUY11: Depends! If you get specific, "anthropomorphic" refers to endowing an animal, god, or object with human traits. A process of making something more human would have to be involved.
So, from a creator's perspective: If the original artist that designed the Khajiit race drew them up from nothing with no inspiration from either cats or humans and they just happened to come out this way, then no, they're not anthropomorphic. Otherwise, they are. Conclusion? Unless the artist designs in a vacuum, yes, they're anthro cats.
From an in-universe perspective: The many shared biological characteristics of the sapient races of Tamriel heavily imply a common ancestry; the catlike traits of the khajiit are far more likely than the humanlike traits to be coincidental. What this means is that humans and khajiit probably split off at an earlier stage and developed in parallel. Khajiit most likely neither came from cats, nor ever developed to become "more human" than they were from the start. Conclusion? No, they're not anthro cats.
Thank you, thank you, I'll be defending my dissertation next week.
Toryu-Mau: ... I heard there's a Khajiit fight, and came to PROTECC, but the ART is too strong in this one~!
What DO?! D^':(<
No... NO! Keep those Details away from from me!
We will not be swayed~! ( Holds onto armrest with a deathgrip )
DOOMGUY11: I need an actual art program and equipment what do you guys recommend? now that I got more used to the characters by sketching just wanting to try out different styles
LuminosityXVII: @DOOMGUY11: ArtRage has served me fairly well, would recommend. Not the most ridiculously powerful software in the world, but nice to work with and easily good enough for a range of applications.
There's also Krita, which is free and supposedly a professional-level tool. Haven't tried it, but I hear pretty good things about it.
MikeyTheFox: @DOOMGUY11: I used Paint tool SAI and Clip Paint Studio, both are pretty good and I love what each as to offer.
As for Equipment, I have a Turcom Tursion TS-6610 it's bigger then what I'm normally used to (which is Wacoms Pen & Touch) but I love the high pressure sensitivity and the programable micro keys. The only downside is that the stylus itself runs off 1 AAA battery. BUT that same battery last lasted me for many years now. And I don't see myself changing it any time soon.
DOOMGUY11: Argonians:they scare me becuz they ugly
Khajiit:why you sneaking into my houee?
Elves:ur ears bother me
Humans:why you mug me?
Vampires:don't touch me
Werewolves:umm... good boy/girl?
You: you are cool
Sashimi: So, just an idea that was posed to me which I incorporated into my fic. The possibility for Rajirra's actions were due in part to her discovering she was with child, and it was fear of losing that child which caused her to panic and act irrationally. It's just something to consider anyway.
Sashimi: @DOOMGUY11: That is the consensus. In my story, she's already lost three kids prior to this, and so she's deathly afraid of losing another.All the trauma of that experience comes rushing back when she's confronted by the imp, and she panics.
DOOMGUY11: Wait luminosity maybe she don't believe her, katia gets beaten and proves to her maybe with the bartender's evidence by himself saying they are planning to have kid(s)?
PermanentFace: As far as I'm concerned, Rajirra is a bad person, and no amount of fan-fan-fiction will change this. I think Katia is entitled to a bit of revenge, but perhaps it's for the best that she keeps her hands clean and lets Mehrunes Dagon serve as karmic executioner.
POMA: What we know of Rajirra so far: escaped slave traders in morrowind, took every oddjob she could, worked hard all her life to earn trust for khajiiti kind and panicked once she saw a hulking imp 4 times the size of her.
Now a quick recap for Katia: drinking and slutting almost all her concious life, breaking and entering, public debauchery, destorying of private properties, failing at easiest tasks.
Not judging but saying that if you think Rajirra is a bad person, you should be completely disgusted by Katia.
LuminosityXVII: @Raydio: Nah. The above overview is the "let's make everyone sound as bad as possible" highlight reel, not the whole-person view. Still makes a valid point, BUT in the end Katia's trying her damnedest to be better, and that's what counts.
Raj? I have no idea about canon Ra'Jirra other than that she's pretty and was a huge, but mayyybe-forgiveable-depending-on-the-circumstances asshole in the screentime she's had. I like the idea of who she could be if it turned out she had an understandable reason (like in Sashimi's version of things), but as it is I just want answers. And healthy conflict resolution, yo.
The bartender? Swell guy, all around. Everyone loves him at parties. Mostly cause he's serving the alcohol. Still counts.
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: Okay I was being silly about it, but seriously: this talk of execution and especially neck-snapping is creeping me out, fictional character or no. I figure you probably don't really mean it, but just... I am concerned. Maybe be a little less murdery?
DOOMGUY11: Exactly maybe they fought but forgave each other, introduced S'thengir as the father and leave it at that maybe? Katia becomes part of the"family" in the future?
Sashimi: While I don't believe Raj is a bad, or wicked character at heart, she did make a poor choice which she is accountable for, But to me, this seems out of character for Katia, She doesn't strike me as the revenge type.
DOOMGUY11: Katia made a promise...she cant break it, but with Sigrid it's worse. This seems like I could forgive her but won't forget what raj did you know?
Sashimi: @DOOMGUY11: True, one wouldn't forget, but hatred is poison to the soul, and holds you prisoner. Forgiveness can be truly liberating, and I'd like to believe Kat has the capacity for it.
Toryu-Mau: @POMA: ... This makes me curious... If the story had started from Rajirra's perspective, and we were introduced to Katia midway into the narrative, would people's general opinion of these two characters be in reverse? >):^?
What are your thoughts, Booru M8's? Let's talk it out~ >):^D
PermanentFace: But seriously, there's so much abologism going about for this character who has been consistently represented in the actual story as a huge asshole who left Katia to die alone and afraid. I don't want her getting redeemed just because the fanbase thinks she's pretty.
DOOMGUY11: Uh no, of course not raj is cowardly I would but wouldn't fully forgive her like I stated earlier but we never see her again in the story, possibly having ran away or hiding
Toryu-Mau: @Sashimi: ... As a person who had once harbored deadly intent towards a certain group of people who had done me wrong for nearly a decade, I can vouch that holding grudge and keeping karmic score for nefarious perposes is not constructive and drains the life out of the person holding said grudge while usually not the person this ill intent is directed at, who has their own problems to dear with.
It is generally beneficial for both side to leave bigons behind and move on to realizing new opportunities, because I for one know that I've got no time to waste on petty squabbles that go nowhere and frownfares where everyone involved loses.
There's smiles to be made and laughs to be had, maybe throw in a cookie and care a little too, these things are what makes it worth living, not the getting of one-uppance in a pointless argument for vainglorious satisfaction that lasts a microsecond.
And Yes, you too, can haz a cookie. c^:(<
~ This has been a PSA broadcast from the West Coast, Thanks for listening, M8s. -TM- ~ >):^D
It's cause healthy conflict resolution is baller, yo.
Ain't nothing to be gained from just hurting a person because they hurt you first. If there's a way to make an enemy a friend, that is always the best outcome. And if you can do that, you'll usually learn there's more to someone than just what you saw when they slighted you.
If not, oh well. Do the minimum harm necessary to keep yourself safe. Then at least you'll know you tried to do the right thing.
DOOMGUY11: I feel like they can be best friends in my opinion it's always the serious that are the most outgoing
And katia who is more outgoing always tries to hide her feelings
LuminosityXVII: @DOOMGUY11: Thanks, DoomGuy! I could see that potentially turning out to be true. We'd only find out if an attempt at reconciliation were made.
PermanentFace: Katia tried being friends with Rajirra. Rajirra screwed her over in return.
This isn't a story about healthy conflict resolution, it's a spiral that (hopefully, for Katia's own sake) will land our protagonist in the Imperial Prison.
Rick2tails: I think Rajirra treat Katia with contempt and rudeness the moment she met her.She also left her to die and LOCKED the door to leave Katia trapped.Thats grade A asshole material there.I still dont want Rajirra to be killed.Not to mention Katia doesnt seem as strong as Raj so if she was to fight ,hand to hand grappling wouldnt be her strength.
I do think also Katia isnt one to have some death wish kick ass vengeance feelings.I do think though shed want an apology and or maybe do some childish prank to get back at Raj like sneaking up invisible and pouring something on her or leaving a tack in her boots or something.
Theres only one person I think Katia might be willing to beat the crap out of and thats who shes in conflict with at the moment in the story
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: If you only try to do the right thing once and quit the first time it fails, you were never really trying. We can be better.
---
And you're right, clearly it's not a story about healthy conflict resolution; just look at our main character, like you said. Her conflict "resolution" is about as unhealthy as it gets. Just not in a murdery way. Ultimate Vengeance wouldn't be the correct answer unless the main character were a wannabe Kratos.
But anyway, you and I haven't been speaking to what fits the story; just to what we would want to happen if it were all real and we cared nothing for the flow of narrative. And that's where all the murder talk bothers me. I understand wanting to protect Katia, totally, but it's just too vindictive, too soon. Even if we're just talking about what we want, we ought to at least find out whether she's redeemable before total condemnation is on the table. I was pissed as hell too, when she did the thing, but my first reaction would be to demand an explanation, not to immediately go for the jugular.
By the way, @Rick2tails: I think you said it pretty well, even if I'd like to see Raj turn out to be kinder after a good thrashing/pranking.
Sashimi: Those without sin shall cast the first stone!
Was Raj rude to Kat, yes. Was she contemptuous? Apparently, and we can only speculate as to what Rajirra's reasons were. But what is not speculation is the FACT that if not for Katia, Raj would not have even been there. Katia bears responsibility for getting Rajirra into a situation for which she was NOT suited for. Rajirra said it herself that she's not a fighter. She's a survivor, and a pragmatist. She knew getting involved with the Imp ordeal was a bad decision.
She tried to convince Katia of that. "A functional Khajiit runs away from danger, not headlong toward it" and. "Imps and such are dangerous magical creatures, jobs better left to the Fighter’s Guild" is what she said. Raj's failing was to follow a foolish khajiit on a fools errand, and in doing so, was herself endangered by that decision, and it was mortal danger! Combating a giant imp with lightning powers was not what she signed up for.
Without any magical abilities of her own, and not being a skilled fighter, what was she supposed to do? Be horribly maimed or killed for some stranger? I'm sorry but I'd never expect that of someone. I don't blame her for fleeing. Locking Katia in was a terrible act, and she should be accountable, but I think she deserves some leniency given the fact that it was Katia's idea, not Rajirra's to take on the job. If it had been Raj's idea, and she did the same thing, my opinion would be completely different, but sorry, Katia is culpable to an extent in this matter.
PermanentFace: @LuminosityXVII: Katia isn't a bad person. She probably wouldn't want to full-on murder Rajirra. But do not try to diminish the fact that Rajirra tried to get Katia killed. She didn't just cut and run, she locked her in a room alone with a monster. And this does not break the character we've seen from her. As far as the 'flow of the narrative' is concerned, Occam's Razor and her previous interactions with Katia say we should probably assume her reasons aren't as convoluted as "she's pregnant with the innkeeper's child and has lost multiple children in the past" and she just honestly doesn't give a damn about Katia's life. That's a perfectly legitimate characterization. It's okay for pretty cat ladies to be bad people.
But anyway, Rajirra is all but guaranteed a death. The Oblivion Crisis wipes out everyone in Kvatch except for a handful of survivors which happens to include Sigrid. More's the pity. But I trust Kazerad to keep this story a Prequel and refrain from spinning it off into its own AU just to protect someone's waifu.
PermanentFace: @Sashimi: It astonishes me to hear you claim that Katia bears some responsibility for being locked in a room with a greater impmaster murder-boss while her erstwhile partner claims payment and runs. That's some grade-A victim blaming right there.
ThatGuyWithAKhajiitWaifu: Lets stop arguing about whos waifu is better. The only thing that matters is what YOU think about which ever pretty cat lady you like the most. Enjoy your own AU's and whatever, but lets stop arguing about fictional waifus.
Toryu-Mau: @LuminosityXVII: ... Yup, Shonen Manga conflict resolution with fisticuffs between soon to be pals is wholesome stuff, but... can we do it with less hostile touching, maybe?
Yeah... Black Rom is a fire that tends to burst out of nowhere and burn down empires. >)':^/
Sashimi: @PermanentFace: Now please don't misunderstand me, Just because I support Raj doesn't mean I'm against Katia, but it's the truth when I say she does bear a small portion of responsibility in this. Raj was set to go home and mind her own business. Not take on some dangerous creature that would most likely result in her death.
Katia has a habit of getting into situations that she's overly ambitious and ill prepared for. I liken it to the annoying neighbor that you can barely tolerate, who talks you into helping in getting the squirrel out of his attic, only it turns out to be a rabid raccoon, and you get bit for your trouble.
My point is, yes I agree that Rajirra committed a terrible act, and I don't absolve her of it, but like I stated before, Raj is no fighter, and would not stand a chance against a magical being of that magnitude, so of course she's gonna be terrified. She wouldn't have put herself in that situation had not Katia convinced her to participate. So there should be consideration for that.
Rajirra was probably so out of her mind with fear that she didn't even think about the fact that she locked Katia in, it was pure survival instinct. Not malicious intent.
And I don't think she collected any reward, just hightailed it outta there..
Toryu-Mau: @DOOMGUY11: ... People who put up a tough front to strangers and exude the "Aura of Unapproachability" tends to be very caring to the few people who are patient enough to get past their facade, and are usually just waiting for that 10% of people to reach out first. c^:(<
Toryu-Mau: @Rick2tails: ( Rubs hands together in anticipation )
... Yes, a bit of Harshwhimsy will bring the much needed relief to both parties, M8. >):^}
Sashimi: I know it sounds like I'm trying to get her off the hook scott free, but that's not the case. I'm not defending her actions in locking Katia with the Imp, but trying to get people to consider a different point of view before determining her punishment.
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: Hey, in the end, I want Kaz to do what Kaz wants to do. If he was already gonna have them make up, great! If not, well. I trust Kaz, and fundamentally altering your comic to please fans does not a good story make. Nor a happy author. Nor a happy anyone, not for long.
And I don't intend to apologize for Raj, not at all. Her actions were reprehensible. I just 1) hope she can be better than what we've seen of her, and 2) am saying that that which one deserves and that which is right are often not the same thing. Justice comes in only where mercy cannot succeed. Complete condemnation is only for the completely irredeemable.
Speaking of which, Occam's Razor only gives you an idea what possibilities are most likely. It's a super useful tool for prioritizing possibilities that you want to test, but it's not enough to draw a conclusion from, not when anything important is on the line. It's certainly not enough to condemn a person with. Hence why priority #1 is finding out about Raj for sure.
Which is why I'd like to see Katia sock her one and then demand an explanation. Because she needs one, assuming she wants to have anything to do with Raj at all.
DOOMGUY11: "Optional:Punch Rajiira"
Kazerad plz get ideas off us,plz answer our prayers, but importantly do what you think is best for our khajiit waifus, amen.
LuminosityXVII: Yes what DoomGuy said but also please deliver unto us that VR headset I asked for last Christmas, I left cookies and milk and everything. Amen.
PermanentFace: Sashimi: I'm pretty sure Tavia says Rajirra collected the payment before she left. And the way Rajirra eyes Katia as she edges out of the room (not to mention barring the door with her spear) makes me think this was a calculated move and not a consequence of being out of her mind with fear.
And I'm not condemning a person, Luminosity. I'm condemning a fictional character. I see no reason to protect Rajirra. I see no reason for her to be given a second chance (more like third, fourth, or fifth, really, considering how many times she figuratively spat on Katia even before locking her in a deathtrap). She's not someone we need to care about to enjoy this story. She's just another asshole who's screwed over our protagonist, like Gharug and Sigrid.
Sashimi: @PermanentFace: Taken from Katia:Weigh options,"With Rajirra out of the picture, you just earned 170 septims." So that sure sounds like she didn't collect. And when she eyes katia, It looks to me as thinking "Oh shit, you're on your own!" Something that's spontaneous.
Barring the door, whether she considered that Kat was locked in or if it was a blind reaction with that I can only speculate on what she was thinking, but that is where we agree that she did a terrible thing. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve punishment, but I don't think she deserves to die.
@CaptainLackwit: Sorry CL, But I'm stating it at a technical truth. If I talked someone into joining me in a scheme, and things went terribly wrong where they were endangered. No matter what the outcome was, I would always be forced to accept the fact that It was my idea to include them. And I was responsible for getting them in that situation. That is the truth as how I would feel in that case, even if they screwed me over in some way. That acknowledgement of culpability would be inescapable to me, and it would influence my reaction afterward.
Sashimi: But in the overall scheme of things, I guess our arguing over fictional characters is silly. I know we get quite passionate about some of them, and lose sight of what we're doing. I know I can easily get carried away with this, as do others. Let's just agree that we have opposing viewpoints and leave it at that.
PermanentFace: There's no way barring the door so your partner can't escape is a 'blind reaction.' Nor is it in any way an acceptable or expected risk upon entering a casual partnership to be abandoned and sealed in with an enemy you are unprepared to fight. The idea that Katia is to blame in any respect for being locked in a deathtrap by someone who had agreed to help her (in exchange for an extortionate percentage of the prize money, no less) is appalling. If you weren't so infatuated with Rajirra, I suspect you'd see that, but... Well. Here we are.
CaptainLackwit: @Sashimi: Opinion =/= fact. I'm sorry but locking Katia to her potential death, but somehow that's Katia's fault? Yeah, no, fuck that and the horse that idea rode in on. It'd be a sudden reaction if...
1: Rajirra JUST bolted.
2: The door WASN'T locked.
3: She didn't lie to the shopkeeper.
I get that she's your waifu, for some reason, but holy shit fam. She left Katia to die and made up a lie to buy herself time and run the hell off. Whatever happens, Rajirra's got it comin'. That's the truth of it.
AMKitsune: OK, well seeing as everyone's having their say, I'll have mine as well.
Based solely on what we've seen of her in the comic, I sit on the "Rajirra's a self centered bitch" side of the fence.
For a start, ever since we first meet her, she's either been rude or dismissive of Katia.
Possible cultural BS aside, this is not how you inform someone making an attempt to speak your language (for your benefit) that they're doing a poor job of it.
And just to make sure there's no doubt that this response is unwarranted, this was in reply to Katia greeting her with
"Good hunting, clanmate! My name is Katia Managan!"
"This one severely doubts that. What does it want?"
"Just wanting to chat? It has been long time since I met another Khajiit. My Ta'agra is maybe rusty."
"Every word it speaks rapes the language of its ancestors. Violently rapes it with a thorny, Khajiit cock. My ears beg for death. Death which they are denied."
"I am sorry, I did not understand that. You use simpler words?"
"Aaaraaaraaargh. Fine. What does it want?"
"Just saying hello?"
"Or so it tries."
There's being grumpy, or not wanting to engage with people, but this is just plain brash and offensive.
Trying to talk to her again resulted in:
"I have never known other Suthay-Raht. Would you like to hang out later? Hang out and do Khajiiti things?"
"Khajiiti... things? It means like, share moon sugar? Knock over a bank? Or is it coming on to me?"
"I am very sorry, I did not understand you again. You use simpler words?"
"No. Just no."
"Aww. Okay."
Katia clearly isn't exactly up to scratch with Khajiit culture and speech, so wouldn't the sensible thing for Rajirra to do in this situation be to assume Katia's a little oblivious to the meanings of what she's saying? I mean, you wouldn't take offence if someone who's clearly struggling with the English language happily and enthusiastically told you "this thing is shit!" when they likely meant "this thing is the shit!". You'd hopefully politely inform them of their mistake and carry on.
The third and final interaction with Rajirra in excelsior was the shortest.
"So maybe sometime we could-"
"No. I'm very busy."
"Oh."
At this time, Rajirra was seemingly randomly wondering around the lower right corner of Kvatch. (this is probably just a limitation of npc's in the game, but that very much makes "I'm very busy" seem more like "I'd rather be doing anything else right now")
The point that I feel needs to be taken away from this first encounter is that, besides a less than perfect attempt at speaking her language and a couple of minor cultural fauxpas, Katia introduced herself in as positive and friendly a manor imaginable.
The response to which was an effective "I don't care, you speak terribly, go away."
Generally speaking, I'd call a response like that a bit assholish.
Another great example of what I believe is a sense of eliteism on Rajirras part is right at the bottom of this update
http://www.prequeladventure.com/2014/09/3563/ where she finishes with
"Unless there is something else Khajiit wishes to waste this one’s time with?"
Come on. How much more clearly can someone suggest that they're more important/better than you than by outright stating that you're wasting their time?
On the next page, suggestion submitter 'Sans-sanity' made a pretty good point about Rajirra possibly feeling as though her position as the 'town Khajiit' (and all the jobs that come with it) is being threatened by Katia's presence. Maybe she acts this way towards all other Khajiit who pass through town? We don't know, but she would appear to get on well enough with the Khajiit bartender who saw fit to exclude all Khajiit from his tavern with the exception of himself and Rajirra. Could there be romantic reasons for this, or is it just because they get along like normal civilized people do? What's a matter for the shippers.
The page after that has a nice little section where, when asked 'what the plan is' for dealing with the imp infested attic, "She tells you that she is planning to go in there, run the imps out – or through – and get a reward. For both of your sakes, she hopes you pull your weight and aren’t useless."
It should be noted however that this page also elaborates on how Rajirra is now in Cyrodiil because she 'fled' from her previous home. "A functional Khajiit runs away from danger, not headlong toward it" as she put it. We don't know the details of what happened in her past, but I think we can safely assume that it was pretty damn unpleasant for her to flee to another province with little in the way of plans for the future. Is a shit past a valid excuse to act like an asshole towards someone? Life can really fuck people up if given the chance, so it's impossible to know what she's been through and how it's effected her. Still though, is it ever acceptable to let the memories of the past effect your present interactions with others so negatively?
Skipping ahead a bit to the last time we see Rajirra in the comic, the moment that cements most peoples opinion of Rajirra is when she runs out of the imp fight, leaving Katia alone.
While many people put this down to her being terrified and fleeing for her life, the flash game actually shows her glancing at Katia before slowly scooting away from Katia before bolting out of the room and sealing the doorway behind her with her spear.
These do not appear to be the instinctive acts of someone terrified for their own life. These look more to me like thought out actions. Rajirra clearly saw that the threat that she perceived as minor was in-fact greater than she'd anticipated and decided to get out of their. That's fair enough. Most sane people would do the same. The big issue is that she willing trapped Katia behind whilst preventing the imp from following her. This complete lack of regard for Katias life is further evidenced by the fact that Rajirra doesn't even come back. Even after the lengthy boss battle, Rajirras spear is still left blocking the door. If any aspect of her actions were being driven by a primal fight or flight response, it should surely have settled by that point, allowing her to realize what she did and go back to either see if Katia was ok or try to get some kind of additional help.
No. Whilst leaving Rajirra specifically told the shopkeeper downstairs that she was "leaving you her weapon and an expensive Summon Storm Golem scroll while she ran to get her poisons". A clearly self serving excuse designed to do nothing but but allow Rajirra to maintain her 'good image' with the shopkeeper while buggering off and leaving Katia to die for all she knew.
I could accept Rajirra 'not being such a bad person' if her current standoffish ways had any apparent, valid cause, but they don't (as far as I'm aware). If her actions after witnessing the imp boss were out of sheer, unbridled fear, but they really didn't appear that way to me.
Whether she's just like this with Katia, or with all other strangers, Rajirra appears to act in the belief that she only needs to care about number one, herself. It's sad that life would lead someone to that mindset, but it's still a mindset that a person can hold and other people are well in their rights to call them an asshole for it.
That's why I think Rajirra (up to this point) is an asshole.
I will of course maintain my position that healthy conflict resolution does not include murder, and that I would personally love to see Raj turn out better than what we've seen so far. That said, what we've seen so far is admittedly worse than I'd remembered.
Hm. Maybe they could be ultimate frenemies? That could be fun. Like a kismesis (god I haven't used that word in ages), but probably platonic.
BlackMessa: this is a thread for the ages, folks. rajiira lovers versus the world, a character that so far we haven't seen canonic redemption of but hoh she cyoot so she gets a temporary pass (i second this opinion)
what she did was leave sadcat to her death (read: trap a fellow khajiit in a room with MurderImp McFleshfuck and barricading the door for good measure) and didn't even stick around to deal with the aftermath, and then leave the story forever (read: two or three dozen updates idk). if she gets another appearance then i'll hope right along with you that she's redeemed or has some sort of tragic backstory that would justify her traitorous actions but in the meantime she's badcat
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: Okay so if your desires on the matter take her fictional status into account, then... I mean, sure. There's generally no moral argument for writing a story one way or another.
It's just that the degree of passion I've seen from you on this subject heavily implied to me that you didn't just want a fictional character to go sploot, you wanted a person to go sploot. It seemed to me that you would still take the same position even if all this were real, and that was fuggin creepin me out. If not, though, then we're just left with a difference of opinion that has no moral implications, and that's fine.
Rick2tails: i have to say this has been a very long and for the most part civil thread. I do hope kaz expands on the other khajiits sometime.It`d be nice to know more about the other two then Katia.But then Katia is the main character here.
LuminosityXVII: Yes and also that VR headset please, I know you ate the cookies. I dunno how you got Dad to cover for you, but I don't believe for one second he took them himself. Amen.
PermanentFace: You can't be frenemies if one of you consistently tries to be nice and respectful and friendly while the other just as consistently is an overtly hostile bitch who views the first with unmitigated contempt. That's just a regular person and an asshole.
You also don't get a pass for being cute. Sigrid is a classical beauty (although I suppose she lacks the exoticism and/or fur that Rajirra has) and she doesn't get a pass. Or do you think pretty Sigrid deserves more chances as well?
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: Obviously they can’t be frenemies exactly as they are now; something would have to change. But the idea occurs to me because it’s a change I could see happening without being wildly out of character for either of them. And it’s just one idea, anyway.
And no one’s actually saying she gets a pass for being cute. It’s just part of the reason why we hope she turns out to be worthy of forgiveness.
I’m sorry, though, I’m starting to wonder if you’re being contrary on purpose. I’m hoping you’ll let me know otherwise.
PermanentFace: Hardly. I'm not being contrary in the slightest. I have maintained a single consistent position, which is that Rajirra has been depicted as a bad person and the only reason I can see that anyone would feel otherwise is that they are enamored with her and want her to be finagled into something better than she is.
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: That's an entirely accurate assessment, if I'm being completely honest, and yet everything I said stands.
I'm advocating for mercy. Mercy doesn't care whether its recipient deserves it; only whether they can become better. Redemption, when possible, is never not a good thing.
I'm also, more importantly, telling you that your vindictiveness is worrying. Multiple times now I've left it at a point where I thought everyone could be satisfied. I've entirely acknowledged, from the start, that she's been shown to be a bad person thus far, and that I just want to see if she can be more than that. But that doesn't seem to be enough. You seem dead-set on not only believing, but convincing everyone that because she's a bad person we have to do bad things to her. That the only way forward is to skewer the lady on the long arm of vengeance. It feels like you're using her fictional status as little more than a thinly veiled excuse for bloodlust.
You've seemed pretty cool on every subject except this one. I'm not asking you to change your opinion of her character, I'm not even asking you to stop stating it. Just stop telling us we're wrong for wanting to extend an olive branch, and especially quit the murder talk. Please.
PermanentFace: I quit the murder talk ages ago. But I don't want Kaz to shoehorn in a redemption for this character just because he's afraid of upsetting some of his fans. That would be a really disappoint narrative turn for me.
On the second: I don't want Kaz to shoehorn anything on our accounts either. I want him to do what he's doing and enjoy his creation. If the story happens to include a redemption because that's what he was going to do anyway, then I'm confident it'll fit into the story and be good. If there is no redemption, then I'll find a way to be okay with that and the story will be better off for not having been siderailed.
CandyDragon: Oh my, I feel like I fell down a well. Thanks to AMKitsune for the reminder of why Rajirra is an asshole, I was of similar mindset to Luminosity, but then I was like, no, yeah, I remember now. Rajirra is 100% jerk. Good Discussion! Looooooooooooooong Discussion too.
Sashimi: Oh, I have an excavator! But actually, I said something earlier which I regret now. I was feeling defensive and made the statement about Kat sharing some of the responsibility for the situation. That was in poor taste and I retract it. I apologize for being insensitive. Believe it or not, I do really like Katia. Amk made some good points, and I can see why people see her in that way. I hold firm my resolve though because I still have a different perspective for those events, which I plan to post later. Just an alternative viewpoint.
Toryu-Mau: @CandyDragon: ( Throws down a rope for CD to climb up )
... Ya alright down there, M8? The excavator was too heavy to hoist down! >):^c
Been down there a few days now, I hear? >):^?
( Tosses a bag of cookies down the thread )
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Sashimi: Okay, so the past few days have been a bit tumultuous with much debate as to the nature of Rajirra’s actions concerning Katia. Many consider her to be a self serving, maniacal bitch, unworthy of redemption, or forgivness.
I can certainly understand peoples feelings given the unkind way she treated Katia, (especially the whole locking her in a room with a giant murderous imp.)
But I’ve always held a firm belief that Rajirra was infact, not a bad character, but a good soul who was troubled by the time Katia arrived in Kvatch. This position stems from my perception of Rajirra’s interactions with Katia which I’ll try to explain in detail.
AMKitsune created a detailed explanation of Raj and Kat’s interactions which was pretty damning, and I think represents the mojority view of most Prequel readers, so I’ll use that as a comparison, but I happen to disagree with much of the assessment in that post.
There’s three general areas I wish to explore:
First is the reasoning for Rajirra’s rude behavior towards Katia
Second is the infamous murderboss fight, where Raj ditched Kat and locked her in.
And third being the comparison that Rajirra is no different than Sigrid or Gharug
So, I start with the first point, Rajirra’s rudeness:
It has to stem from a reason. Either Rajirra is already upset about something, and Kat has encountered her while Raj is preoccupied, or there’s something about Katia that Rajirra simply doesn’t like.
Now I’ve maintained that something had been troubling Raj from the beginning, something like she’s dealing with a pregnancy or other distressing issue, but the fact is, that is only my own speculation, and there’s no real evidence on which to base it other than my preconceived notions of how people interact.
So let’s look at the other possibility; that Rajirra simply takes one look at Katia and instantly dislikes her
From AMK’s post.
Possible cultural BS aside, this is not how you inform someone making an attempt to speak your language (for your benefit) that they're doing a poor job of it.
And just to make sure there's no doubt that this response is unwarranted, this was in reply to Katia greeting her with
"Good hunting, clanmate! My name is Katia Managan!"
"This one severely doubts that. What does it want?"
"Just wanting to chat? It has been long time since I met another Khajiit. My Ta'agra is maybe rusty."
"Every word it speaks rapes the language of its ancestors. Violently rapes it with a thorny, Khajiit cock. My ears beg for death. Death which they are denied."
"I am sorry, I did not understand that. You use simpler words?"
"Aaaraaaraaargh. Fine. What does it want?"
"Just saying hello?"
"Or so it tries."
There's being grumpy, or not wanting to engage with people, but this is just plain brash and offensive.
Trying to talk to her again resulted in:
"I have never known other Suthay-Raht. Would you like to hang out later? Hang out and do Khajiiti things?"
"Khajiiti... things? It means like, share moon sugar? Knock over a bank? Or is it coming on to me?"
"I am very sorry, I did not understand you again. You use simpler words?"
"No. Just no."
"Aww. Okay."
Katia clearly isn't exactly up to scratch with Khajiit culture and speech, so wouldn't the sensible thing for Rajirra to do in this situation be to assume Katia's a little oblivious to the meanings of what she's
saying? I mean, you wouldn't take offence if someone who's clearly struggling with the English language happily and enthusiastically told you "this thing is shit!" when they likely meant "this thing is the shit!". You'd hopefully politely inform them of their mistake and carry on.
The third and final interaction with Rajirra in excelsior was the shortest.
"So maybe sometime we could-"
"No. I'm very busy."
"Oh."
At this time, Rajirra was seemingly randomly wondering around the lower right corner of Kvatch. (this is probably just a limitation of npc's in the game, but that very much makes "I'm very busy" seem more like "I'd rather be doing anything else right now")
The point that I feel needs to be taken away from this first encounter is that, besides a less than perfect attempt at speaking her language and a couple of minor cultural faux pas, Katia introduced herself in as positive and friendly a manor imaginable.
The response to which was an effective "I don't care, you speak terribly, go away."
Generally speaking, I'd call a response like that a bit assholish.
Okay, so yeah, this comes across as pretty assholish. Now I certainly don’t think you can include the fact that the sprite doesn’t leave the vicinity as evidence for her motives. Like it’s stated above, it’s probably a limitation of the program.
But let’s go back to her behavior. As I mentioned before, It always struck me as though Rajirra was moody because she’s troubled about something. I mean most folks who behave like that are upset about something and don’t wish to be bothered. Indeed, this is just speculation on my part, but anger or despair come from something.
Now it’s been suggested that Rajirra is rude simply because she doesn’t like Katia from the beginning, but why?. She’s been called an elitist snob and too good to be bothered by Kat
That’s certainly a possibility, but to be honest, I wouldn’t call Rajirra elitist, at least not in the high society sense. Rajirra is a working class girl as evidenced in the comic. She’s not dressed in fancy clothing, but in peasant garb.
When Raj is explaining her coming to Cyrodiil, (which was a civil discussion btw) you can see that she’s been through a difficult journey, given the tattered state of her clothing, and the arrows jutting from her pack.
Sashimi: Rajirra has had to struggle and fight to eek out a living, taking odd jobs and enduring the predjudices of humans and elves She also talks about taking odd jobs around town ( To quote Raj )
“.She helps townshumans and good-wizard Sigrid with odd jobs that need deep-climbs, long-jumps, or sight-in-dark-places or scaring-eye. Fixing weather vanes, finding lost keys, scare away wildlife on jobs too small for fighter’s guild, and the like.”
I would surmise that Rajirra has an attitude more closely resembling how a person from the country might perceive a city dweller (city slicker). Seeing Katia as someone who has has an easy life of luxury compared to Rajirra’s one of struggle and toil.
I cite several reasons for this belief:
1: Katias speech
2: Katias apparel
3: Katias well kempt appearance
4: Katias youth and subsequent perceived inexperience and naivety.
Katia’s speech was an instant clue that she was not raised in what many khajiit would probably consider a ‘normal’ situation. The other characters in the story even mentioning that they’ve never heard a khajiit talk like a redguard.
Rajirra even commends Kat’s parents on providing her with a respectable upbringing.
Katia’s apparel would be another signal to Raj that Kat is not a typical working class khajiit. She’s wearing her mages robe the first time they met. Seeing her in such garb would be another confirmation that Kat comes from a life of ease, and excess.
Katia’s well kempt appearance was noted later on in Tavia’s shop when Raj made the remark about Katia’s well manicured nails. To quote the page:
You ask her why, because things usually turn out for the best? No, she replies, because it’s annoying to listen to well-manicured kittens whine about how miserable their lives are.
Raj would have had to notice this during their first encounter, since Kat was wearing the raiment gloves at this time. But this would further reinforce the perception of a non laborer.
Katia’s youth and subsequent perceived inexperience and naivety is something that I can imagine would bias an older khajiit. Many older people seem to be naturally skeptical of the abilities of someone younger than they, and unfairly pass judgement. Rajirra most likely sees Kat as an overprivileged, underexperienced and spoiled rich khajiit that she has little in common with.
So to summarize; If it’s not a preoccupation with other troubling matters that account for Rajirra’s rudeness, then I believe Raj suffers from the bitterness a poor, working class person might have toward those who come from priviledge. I at least think this is a reasonable explanation. Is it fair that Raj acts this way? Does it excuse her? No, but it is understandable, at least to me. I can relate to Raj in that I am of the working class poor as well, and I do admire her for not being afraid to get down and dirty. But she still should be more cordial.
So yes, she is assholish, but for reasons I say are forgivable, or at least pityable.
And let’s not overlook the fact that at their next encounter, Rajirra is cordial, at least at the beginning. She actually takes time to talk with Kat in a civil manner. (That would signal to me that she was upset about something earlier)
Okay, so the next area of discussion concerning her dismissive behavior
Another great example of what I believe is a sense of eliteism on Rajirras part is right at the bottom of this update
http://www.prequeladventure.com/2014/09/3563/
where she finishes with
"Unless there is something else Khajiit wishes to waste this one’s time with?"
Come on. How much more clearly can someone suggest that they're more important/better than you than by outright stating that you're wasting their time?
Okay, so just before that ‘wasting my time’ remark, Katia is about to take the rope from the well: [quote] You ask the Khajiit if she wants to, ah, take this rope. You saw it here earlier so you’re guessing it’s not hers.
She tells you that, seeing as how it doesn’t belong to her, she’s going to do the responsible thing as a contributing-member of society and not steal it in plain view like some sort of racial stereotype. You know what she’s trying to say to you, but right now you’re on a quest. Besides, the rope’s been here for a good ten hours by now. If someone needed it more than you do, they would have taken it already. And it’s not like you’re stealing it; you’ll bring it back later. It’s lying on the ground now and you’ll probably drop it back on the ground whenever you’re done with it.
The Khajiit makes a low, growling sound, but is otherwise silent as you gather up the rope. When you’re done, she mentions that it’s wet and late at night, and that she wants to go back home now.
[/quote]
Okay, so clearly Rajirra iis outside in the snow and cold, she’s wet and not very happy, and she’s being distracted from completing her task by Katia. Someone whom she figures is incapable of doing the same cause they’ve not needed the skills to survive. She also get’s annoyed at the notion of Kat taking something that doesn’t belong to her.
I’d say that’s pretty commendable civic respect regarding taking the rope, and again, I can totally sympathize and relate to Raj’s desire to get back home so she can get some relief and comfort from the elements, not be kept outside chatting. I’d argue that anyone in that situation would be annoyed and curt.
Returning to AMK’s post:
On the next page, suggestion submitter 'Sans-sanity' made a pretty good point about Rajirra possibly feeling as though her position as the 'town Khajiit' (and all the jobs that come with it) is being threatened by Katia's presence. Maybe she acts this way towards all other Khajiit who pass through town? We don't know, but she would appear to get on well enough with the Khajiit bartender who saw fit to exclude all Khajiit from his tavern with the exception of himself and Rajirra. Could there be romantic reasons for this, or is it just because they get along like normal civilized people do? What's a matter for the shippers.
Romantic involvement, or is it respect due to the bartender being of a kindered social status? She respects him because he labors just as she does?
The page after that has a nice little section where, when asked 'what the plan is' for dealing with the imp infested attic, "She tells you that she is planning to go in there, run the imps out – or through – and get a reward. For both of your sakes, she hopes you pull your weight and aren’t useless."
Again, I’d surmise that Raj thinks of Katia as unsuitable for fighting imps given her presumption about Kat having a cushy, and easy life.
It should be noted however that this page also elaborates on how Rajirra is now in Cyrodiil because she 'fled' from her previous home. "A functional Khajiit runs away from danger, not headlong toward it" as she put it. We don't know the details of what happened in her past, but I think we can safely assume that it was pretty damn unpleasant for her to flee to another province with little in the way of plans for the future. Is a shit past a valid excuse to act like an asshole towards someone? Life can really fuck people up if given the chance, so it's impossible to know what she's been through and how it's effected her. Still though, is it ever acceptable to let the memories of the past effect your present interactions with others so negatively?
I agree wholeheartedly with the above. Something quite unpleasant must have occurred, and it’s impossible for us to know at this time. And yes, terrible events can scar one emotionally for life.
Is it acceptable? Again, without knowing what happened I can’t answer that, but I’d say it at least bears some consideration what she may have experienced, before judging Raj.
Skipping ahead a bit to the last time we see Rajirra in the comic, the moment that cements most peoples opinion of Rajirra is when she runs out of the imp fight, leaving Katia alone.
While many people put this down to her being terrified and fleeing for her life, the flash game actually shows her glancing at Katia before slowly scooting away from Katia before bolting out of the room and sealing the doorway behind her with her spear.
These do not appear to be the instinctive acts of someone terrified for their own life. These look more to me like thought out actions. Rajirra clearly saw that the threat that she perceived as minor was in-fact greater than she'd anticipated and decided to get out of their. That's fair enough. Most sane people would do the same. The big issue is that she willing trapped Katia behind whilst preventing the imp from following her. This complete lack of regard for Katias life is further evidenced by the fact that Rajirra doesn't even come back. Even after the lengthy boss battle, Rajirras spear is still left blocking the door. If any aspect of her actions were being driven by a primal fight or flight response, it should surely have settled by that point, allowing her to realize what she did and go back to either see if Katia was ok or try to get some kind of additional help.
No. Whilst leaving Rajirra specifically told the shopkeeper downstairs that she was "leaving you her weapon and an expensive Summon Storm Golem scroll while she ran to get her poisons". A clearly self serving excuse designed to do nothing but but allow Rajirra to maintain her 'good image' with the shopkeeper while buggering off and leaving Katia to die for all she knew.
I could accept Rajirra 'not being such a bad person' if her current standoffish ways had any apparent, valid cause, but they don't (as far as I'm aware). If her actions after witnessing the imp boss were out of sheer, unbridled fear, but they really didn't appear that way to me.
Whether she's just like this with Katia, or with all other strangers, Rajirra appears to act in the belief that she only needs to care about number one, herself. It's sad that life would lead someone to that mindset, but it's still a mindset that a person can hold and other people are well in their rights to call them an asshole for it.
That's why I think Rajirra (up to this point) is an asshole.
This is where I TOTALLY DISAGREE! I do say this was a spur of the moment reaction driven purely out of fear. Rajirra had no intentions of betraying katia until the moment the murderboss appeared and she reacted out of sheer terror. She didn’t even stick around to collect any reward, which is proven in the comic.
It’s also been suggested by others that Rajirra had plotted from the beginning to kill Katia, and collect the reward. I can comfirm that is FALSE. Took the liberty of contacting the one person who could give a reliable answer. I contacted Kaz through Discord and asked him directly, which he has stated ANYONE is free to do.
Sashimi: These are some excerpts from my conversation:
So there was no prearranged murder plot to begin with. I continued …..
Now that part had me worried when Kaz said she plotted in the short term sense, but then he replied with ‘snap judgement’, and made the rope cutting comparison. So that sure sounds like a spur of the moment decision to me.
But I was starting to waiver on the strength of my argument
Now I admit that including Katia into the blame mix was a bad move that was motivated primarily by defensive measures. I was feeling hurt, and I reacted poorly.
Afterwards, I wanted to reply in a way that didn’t sound like I was assessing blame to Kat, but I couldn’t find an acceptable solution, so I turned to Kaz again for advice…
So yeah, like I said earlier, it was a bad call on my part, and I retract my statement, but Kaz made a good point about how Rajirra was concerned about the level of risk. It goes back to when Rajirra says that she’s not a fighter. Imps and such are dangerous magical creatures, jobs better left to the Fighter’s Guild.
I started feeling a bit better afterward…...for a short while at least. But then I began to falter once more.
So I guess in the overall scheme of things, either possibility is valid. She may indeed be the bad individual that some believe, or she could be the flawed, but fundamentally good character that I propose. As Kaz stated, the amibguity surrounding her doesn’t preclude my assessment of her.
Now the final portion I wish to cover is the comparison of Rajirra to Sigrid and Gharug. Raj has been lumped into the same catagory as the others: As manipulative, coniving, devious criminal scum! I simply cannot do that!
So much has been said about how rudely Raj treated Kat. Well look how Sigrid and Gharug behaved, they were kind and receptive, AND TOTALLY SCHEMING BASTARDS! They were kind to Katia so they could lull her into a false sense of trust, all the while planning to screw her over. That sounds pretty damn cold hearted and sadistic to me.
Rajirra on the other hand, just wanted to be left alone. She was rude to Katia so she’d go away. If Raj had intended to take advantage of Kat, wouldn’t she also have put on an act of kindness in order to fool her?
The thing is, if the imp fight had gone as planned, then I certainly believe they would have collected the reward as planned, Rajirra would have returned the rope to Katia, and they would have continued on with their separate lives. So I simply cannot see Rajirra in the same damning light.
So to recap:
There was no premeditated plot to kill Kat.
Raj’s fleeing and subsequent locking of the door was indeed spur of the moment.
Raj’s lie to the shopkeeper was poorly contrived.
Raj fled without collecting any reward.
Her behavior towards Kat was rude, but the explanation is open to interpretation.
Raj was indeed civil during the encounter at the well, (so that reinforces my belief that she was troubled by some other issues earlier.)
This leads me to think of her not as a bad character, but as a flawed one. One that should at least be pitied.
I don’t absolve Raj of her actions. She committed a terrible act, but I just can’t accept that she’s beyond redemption.
Rick2tails: I still think of Raj as an asshole. I do think for the short term of a few seconds she decided to leave Katia to die but it wasnt some long term plot. I`d say you could convict her of manslaughter if Katia had died. But shes no Sigrid or anything.Comparing her to Sigrid is excessive. And I say she could totally be redeemed.In fiction people redeem characters much much worse all the time. Like in DBZ vegeta was killing billions of people in the service of Freeza then somehow becomes one of gokus allies and has a kid with Bulma one of the cutest girls in the show/manga.
AMKitsune: @Sashimi: (I had this nice comprehensive reply written out by accidentally refreshed the page and lost it all. To say I was pissed would be putting it lightly . Here's a couple of those points.)
Elitism wasn't the best term to use on my part. I'd probably use something more along the lines of 'perceived superiority' now. For the reasons you gave, it makes sense for Rajirra to view Katia as having been through less than herself and not being as developed and 'valuable' a person as herself. (much like how a survival expert might look at a city dweller trying to survive in the jungle and think "God what a useless failure. They won't last a day out here alone. I'm glad I'm better at life than they are.")
Also, the part about her making a 'thought out' choice to leave as opposed to an instinctive one failed to consider 'snap decisions'. Choices made under time pressure, but not based on fight or flight instincts alone. Still, given the extra time to think that came after Rajirra left, I'd have hoped that she'd reconsider her actions and go back to do the 'right thing', but evidently that wasn't the case.
Finally, I don't hink anyone has been under the impression lately that Sigrid and Gro-Upp are 'nice people'. It's just that the only one of these three that has left Katia in a position where she had to actually fight for her life was Rajirra (the fact that the fight was actually player controlled and difficult to 'win' (get a good time) made it feel even more life threatening than other threats in the comic). Not intentionally, but that's still what happened. The kicker is that so far, we've seen no evidence of Rajirra displaying any signs of remorse for her actions. For all we know, she could be sitting at home crying her eyes out now after realising what she's done. This would undoubtedly change peoples view of her, but as far as we can see, she just ran off and that was that.
I've only recently woken up, so apologies if this is hard to read/incoherent or just plain wrong.
PermanentFace: No other antagonist in this story has spawned so many apologetics. And the only apologists Rajirra has seem to be those who want her to be their waifu.
I'm not sure why Rajirra of all characters has stirred up this kind of passion, but I blame the furries.
Describe This Image As Dramatically As Possible
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...
--Then maybe go for a pie together afterward, or some fresh-baked bread or something. Healthy conflict resolution is baller, yo.
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So, from a creator's perspective: If the original artist that designed the Khajiit race drew them up from nothing with no inspiration from either cats or humans and they just happened to come out this way, then no, they're not anthropomorphic. Otherwise, they are. Conclusion? Unless the artist designs in a vacuum, yes, they're anthro cats.
From an in-universe perspective: The many shared biological characteristics of the sapient races of Tamriel heavily imply a common ancestry; the catlike traits of the khajiit are far more likely than the humanlike traits to be coincidental. What this means is that humans and khajiit probably split off at an earlier stage and developed in parallel. Khajiit most likely neither came from cats, nor ever developed to become "more human" than they were from the start. Conclusion? No, they're not anthro cats.
Thank you, thank you, I'll be defending my dissertation next week.
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Fun fact! Hyenas are actually related more closely to cats than dogs. This fact is unrelated to anything, but you reminded me with that last comment.
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What DO?! D^':(<
No... NO! Keep those Details away from from me!
We will not be swayed~! ( Holds onto armrest with a deathgrip )
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There's also Krita, which is free and supposedly a professional-level tool. Haven't tried it, but I hear pretty good things about it.
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As for Equipment, I have a Turcom Tursion TS-6610 it's bigger then what I'm normally used to (which is Wacoms Pen & Touch) but I love the high pressure sensitivity and the programable micro keys. The only downside is that the stylus itself runs off 1 AAA battery. BUT that same battery last lasted me for many years now. And I don't see myself changing it any time soon.
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Now that I'm looking it up, though, it sounds like the khajiit are native to Tamriel, whereas humans and elves migrated there after?
Which still throws my would-be doctorate in the fire, even if the overall point would be conserved by sheer coincidence.
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Khajiit:why you sneaking into my houee?
Elves:ur ears bother me
Humans:why you mug me?
Vampires:don't touch me
Werewolves:umm... good boy/girl?
You: you are cool
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My healthy conflict resolutions have fight scenes.
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Now a quick recap for Katia: drinking and slutting almost all her concious life, breaking and entering, public debauchery, destorying of private properties, failing at easiest tasks.
Not judging but saying that if you think Rajirra is a bad person, you should be completely disgusted by Katia.
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Raj? I have no idea about canon Ra'Jirra other than that she's pretty and was a huge, but mayyybe-forgiveable-depending-on-the-circumstances asshole in the screentime she's had. I like the idea of who she could be if it turned out she had an understandable reason (like in Sashimi's version of things), but as it is I just want answers. And healthy conflict resolution, yo.
The bartender? Swell guy, all around. Everyone loves him at parties. Mostly cause he's serving the alcohol. Still counts.
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What are your thoughts, Booru M8's? Let's talk it out~ >):^D
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It is generally beneficial for both side to leave bigons behind and move on to realizing new opportunities, because I for one know that I've got no time to waste on petty squabbles that go nowhere and frownfares where everyone involved loses.
There's smiles to be made and laughs to be had, maybe throw in a cookie and care a little too, these things are what makes it worth living, not the getting of one-uppance in a pointless argument for vainglorious satisfaction that lasts a microsecond.
And Yes, you too, can haz a cookie. c^:(<
~ This has been a PSA broadcast from the West Coast, Thanks for listening, M8s. -TM- ~ >):^D
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It's cause healthy conflict resolution is baller, yo.
Ain't nothing to be gained from just hurting a person because they hurt you first. If there's a way to make an enemy a friend, that is always the best outcome. And if you can do that, you'll usually learn there's more to someone than just what you saw when they slighted you.
If not, oh well. Do the minimum harm necessary to keep yourself safe. Then at least you'll know you tried to do the right thing.
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And katia who is more outgoing always tries to hide her feelings
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Correct that to By then for a little extra clarity
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This isn't a story about healthy conflict resolution, it's a spiral that (hopefully, for Katia's own sake) will land our protagonist in the Imperial Prison.
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I do think also Katia isnt one to have some death wish kick ass vengeance feelings.I do think though shed want an apology and or maybe do some childish prank to get back at Raj like sneaking up invisible and pouring something on her or leaving a tack in her boots or something.
Theres only one person I think Katia might be willing to beat the crap out of and thats who shes in conflict with at the moment in the story
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And you're right, clearly it's not a story about healthy conflict resolution; just look at our main character, like you said. Her conflict "resolution" is about as unhealthy as it gets. Just not in a murdery way. Ultimate Vengeance wouldn't be the correct answer unless the main character were a wannabe Kratos.
But anyway, you and I haven't been speaking to what fits the story; just to what we would want to happen if it were all real and we cared nothing for the flow of narrative. And that's where all the murder talk bothers me. I understand wanting to protect Katia, totally, but it's just too vindictive, too soon. Even if we're just talking about what we want, we ought to at least find out whether she's redeemable before total condemnation is on the table. I was pissed as hell too, when she did the thing, but my first reaction would be to demand an explanation, not to immediately go for the jugular.
By the way, @Rick2tails: I think you said it pretty well, even if I'd like to see Raj turn out to be kinder after a good thrashing/pranking.
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Was Raj rude to Kat, yes. Was she contemptuous? Apparently, and we can only speculate as to what Rajirra's reasons were. But what is not speculation is the FACT that if not for Katia, Raj would not have even been there. Katia bears responsibility for getting Rajirra into a situation for which she was NOT suited for. Rajirra said it herself that she's not a fighter. She's a survivor, and a pragmatist. She knew getting involved with the Imp ordeal was a bad decision.
She tried to convince Katia of that. "A functional Khajiit runs away from danger, not headlong toward it" and. "Imps and such are dangerous magical creatures, jobs better left to the Fighter’s Guild" is what she said. Raj's failing was to follow a foolish khajiit on a fools errand, and in doing so, was herself endangered by that decision, and it was mortal danger! Combating a giant imp with lightning powers was not what she signed up for.
Without any magical abilities of her own, and not being a skilled fighter, what was she supposed to do? Be horribly maimed or killed for some stranger? I'm sorry but I'd never expect that of someone. I don't blame her for fleeing. Locking Katia in was a terrible act, and she should be accountable, but I think she deserves some leniency given the fact that it was Katia's idea, not Rajirra's to take on the job. If it had been Raj's idea, and she did the same thing, my opinion would be completely different, but sorry, Katia is culpable to an extent in this matter.
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But anyway, Rajirra is all but guaranteed a death. The Oblivion Crisis wipes out everyone in Kvatch except for a handful of survivors which happens to include Sigrid. More's the pity. But I trust Kazerad to keep this story a Prequel and refrain from spinning it off into its own AU just to protect someone's waifu.
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Yeah... Black Rom is a fire that tends to burst out of nowhere and burn down empires. >)':^/
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Katia has a habit of getting into situations that she's overly ambitious and ill prepared for. I liken it to the annoying neighbor that you can barely tolerate, who talks you into helping in getting the squirrel out of his attic, only it turns out to be a rabid raccoon, and you get bit for your trouble.
My point is, yes I agree that Rajirra committed a terrible act, and I don't absolve her of it, but like I stated before, Raj is no fighter, and would not stand a chance against a magical being of that magnitude, so of course she's gonna be terrified. She wouldn't have put herself in that situation had not Katia convinced her to participate. So there should be consideration for that.
Rajirra was probably so out of her mind with fear that she didn't even think about the fact that she locked Katia in, it was pure survival instinct. Not malicious intent.
And I don't think she collected any reward, just hightailed it outta there..
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... Yes, a bit of Harshwhimsy will bring the much needed relief to both parties, M8. >):^}
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And I don't intend to apologize for Raj, not at all. Her actions were reprehensible. I just 1) hope she can be better than what we've seen of her, and 2) am saying that that which one deserves and that which is right are often not the same thing. Justice comes in only where mercy cannot succeed. Complete condemnation is only for the completely irredeemable.
Speaking of which, Occam's Razor only gives you an idea what possibilities are most likely. It's a super useful tool for prioritizing possibilities that you want to test, but it's not enough to draw a conclusion from, not when anything important is on the line. It's certainly not enough to condemn a person with. Hence why priority #1 is finding out about Raj for sure.
Which is why I'd like to see Katia sock her one and then demand an explanation. Because she needs one, assuming she wants to have anything to do with Raj at all.
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Kazerad plz get ideas off us,plz answer our prayers, but importantly do what you think is best for our khajiit waifus, amen.
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And I'm not condemning a person, Luminosity. I'm condemning a fictional character. I see no reason to protect Rajirra. I see no reason for her to be given a second chance (more like third, fourth, or fifth, really, considering how many times she figuratively spat on Katia even before locking her in a deathtrap). She's not someone we need to care about to enjoy this story. She's just another asshole who's screwed over our protagonist, like Gharug and Sigrid.
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Barring the door, whether she considered that Kat was locked in or if it was a blind reaction with that I can only speculate on what she was thinking, but that is where we agree that she did a terrible thing. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve punishment, but I don't think she deserves to die.
@CaptainLackwit: Sorry CL, But I'm stating it at a technical truth. If I talked someone into joining me in a scheme, and things went terribly wrong where they were endangered. No matter what the outcome was, I would always be forced to accept the fact that It was my idea to include them. And I was responsible for getting them in that situation. That is the truth as how I would feel in that case, even if they screwed me over in some way. That acknowledgement of culpability would be inescapable to me, and it would influence my reaction afterward.
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1: Rajirra JUST bolted.
2: The door WASN'T locked.
3: She didn't lie to the shopkeeper.
I get that she's your waifu, for some reason, but holy shit fam. She left Katia to die and made up a lie to buy herself time and run the hell off. Whatever happens, Rajirra's got it comin'. That's the truth of it.
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Based solely on what we've seen of her in the comic, I sit on the "Rajirra's a self centered bitch" side of the fence.
For a start, ever since we first meet her, she's either been rude or dismissive of Katia.
Possible cultural BS aside, this is not how you inform someone making an attempt to speak your language (for your benefit) that they're doing a poor job of it.
And just to make sure there's no doubt that this response is unwarranted, this was in reply to Katia greeting her with
There's being grumpy, or not wanting to engage with people, but this is just plain brash and offensive.
Trying to talk to her again resulted in:
Katia clearly isn't exactly up to scratch with Khajiit culture and speech, so wouldn't the sensible thing for Rajirra to do in this situation be to assume Katia's a little oblivious to the meanings of what she's saying? I mean, you wouldn't take offence if someone who's clearly struggling with the English language happily and enthusiastically told you "this thing is shit!" when they likely meant "this thing is the shit!". You'd hopefully politely inform them of their mistake and carry on.
The third and final interaction with Rajirra in excelsior was the shortest.
At this time, Rajirra was seemingly randomly wondering around the lower right corner of Kvatch. (this is probably just a limitation of npc's in the game, but that very much makes "I'm very busy" seem more like "I'd rather be doing anything else right now")
The point that I feel needs to be taken away from this first encounter is that, besides a less than perfect attempt at speaking her language and a couple of minor cultural fauxpas, Katia introduced herself in as positive and friendly a manor imaginable.
The response to which was an effective "I don't care, you speak terribly, go away."
Generally speaking, I'd call a response like that a bit assholish.
Another great example of what I believe is a sense of eliteism on Rajirras part is right at the bottom of this update
http://www.prequeladventure.com/2014/09/3563/
where she finishes with
"Unless there is something else Khajiit wishes to waste this one’s time with?"
Come on. How much more clearly can someone suggest that they're more important/better than you than by outright stating that you're wasting their time?
On the next page, suggestion submitter 'Sans-sanity' made a pretty good point about Rajirra possibly feeling as though her position as the 'town Khajiit' (and all the jobs that come with it) is being threatened by Katia's presence. Maybe she acts this way towards all other Khajiit who pass through town? We don't know, but she would appear to get on well enough with the Khajiit bartender who saw fit to exclude all Khajiit from his tavern with the exception of himself and Rajirra. Could there be romantic reasons for this, or is it just because they get along like normal civilized people do? What's a matter for the shippers.
The page after that has a nice little section where, when asked 'what the plan is' for dealing with the imp infested attic, "She tells you that she is planning to go in there, run the imps out – or through – and get a reward. For both of your sakes, she hopes you pull your weight and aren’t useless."
It should be noted however that this page also elaborates on how Rajirra is now in Cyrodiil because she 'fled' from her previous home. "A functional Khajiit runs away from danger, not headlong toward it" as she put it. We don't know the details of what happened in her past, but I think we can safely assume that it was pretty damn unpleasant for her to flee to another province with little in the way of plans for the future. Is a shit past a valid excuse to act like an asshole towards someone? Life can really fuck people up if given the chance, so it's impossible to know what she's been through and how it's effected her. Still though, is it ever acceptable to let the memories of the past effect your present interactions with others so negatively?
Skipping ahead a bit to the last time we see Rajirra in the comic, the moment that cements most peoples opinion of Rajirra is when she runs out of the imp fight, leaving Katia alone.
While many people put this down to her being terrified and fleeing for her life, the flash game actually shows her glancing at Katia before slowly scooting away from Katia before bolting out of the room and sealing the doorway behind her with her spear.
These do not appear to be the instinctive acts of someone terrified for their own life. These look more to me like thought out actions. Rajirra clearly saw that the threat that she perceived as minor was in-fact greater than she'd anticipated and decided to get out of their. That's fair enough. Most sane people would do the same. The big issue is that she willing trapped Katia behind whilst preventing the imp from following her. This complete lack of regard for Katias life is further evidenced by the fact that Rajirra doesn't even come back. Even after the lengthy boss battle, Rajirras spear is still left blocking the door. If any aspect of her actions were being driven by a primal fight or flight response, it should surely have settled by that point, allowing her to realize what she did and go back to either see if Katia was ok or try to get some kind of additional help.
No. Whilst leaving Rajirra specifically told the shopkeeper downstairs that she was "leaving you her weapon and an expensive Summon Storm Golem scroll while she ran to get her poisons". A clearly self serving excuse designed to do nothing but but allow Rajirra to maintain her 'good image' with the shopkeeper while buggering off and leaving Katia to die for all she knew.
I could accept Rajirra 'not being such a bad person' if her current standoffish ways had any apparent, valid cause, but they don't (as far as I'm aware). If her actions after witnessing the imp boss were out of sheer, unbridled fear, but they really didn't appear that way to me.
Whether she's just like this with Katia, or with all other strangers, Rajirra appears to act in the belief that she only needs to care about number one, herself. It's sad that life would lead someone to that mindset, but it's still a mindset that a person can hold and other people are well in their rights to call them an asshole for it.
That's why I think Rajirra (up to this point) is an asshole.
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I will of course maintain my position that healthy conflict resolution does not include murder, and that I would personally love to see Raj turn out better than what we've seen so far. That said, what we've seen so far is admittedly worse than I'd remembered.
Hm. Maybe they could be ultimate frenemies? That could be fun. Like a kismesis (god I haven't used that word in ages), but probably platonic.
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what she did was leave sadcat to her death (read: trap a fellow khajiit in a room with MurderImp McFleshfuck and barricading the door for good measure) and didn't even stick around to deal with the aftermath, and then leave the story forever (read: two or three dozen updates idk). if she gets another appearance then i'll hope right along with you that she's redeemed or has some sort of tragic backstory that would justify her traitorous actions but in the meantime she's badcat
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It's just that the degree of passion I've seen from you on this subject heavily implied to me that you didn't just want a fictional character to go sploot, you wanted a person to go sploot. It seemed to me that you would still take the same position even if all this were real, and that was fuggin creepin me out. If not, though, then we're just left with a difference of opinion that has no moral implications, and that's fine.
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You also don't get a pass for being cute. Sigrid is a classical beauty (although I suppose she lacks the exoticism and/or fur that Rajirra has) and she doesn't get a pass. Or do you think pretty Sigrid deserves more chances as well?
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And no one’s actually saying she gets a pass for being cute. It’s just part of the reason why we hope she turns out to be worthy of forgiveness.
I’m sorry, though, I’m starting to wonder if you’re being contrary on purpose. I’m hoping you’ll let me know otherwise.
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I'm advocating for mercy. Mercy doesn't care whether its recipient deserves it; only whether they can become better. Redemption, when possible, is never not a good thing.
I'm also, more importantly, telling you that your vindictiveness is worrying. Multiple times now I've left it at a point where I thought everyone could be satisfied. I've entirely acknowledged, from the start, that she's been shown to be a bad person thus far, and that I just want to see if she can be more than that. But that doesn't seem to be enough. You seem dead-set on not only believing, but convincing everyone that because she's a bad person we have to do bad things to her. That the only way forward is to skewer the lady on the long arm of vengeance. It feels like you're using her fictional status as little more than a thinly veiled excuse for bloodlust.
You've seemed pretty cool on every subject except this one. I'm not asking you to change your opinion of her character, I'm not even asking you to stop stating it. Just stop telling us we're wrong for wanting to extend an olive branch, and especially quit the murder talk. Please.
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On the second: I don't want Kaz to shoehorn anything on our accounts either. I want him to do what he's doing and enjoy his creation. If the story happens to include a redemption because that's what he was going to do anyway, then I'm confident it'll fit into the story and be good. If there is no redemption, then I'll find a way to be okay with that and the story will be better off for not having been siderailed.
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There are plenty of shovels if you want to help!
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... Ya alright down there, M8? The excavator was too heavy to hoist down! >):^c
Been down there a few days now, I hear? >):^?
( Tosses a bag of cookies down the thread )
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I can certainly understand peoples feelings given the unkind way she treated Katia, (especially the whole locking her in a room with a giant murderous imp.)
But I’ve always held a firm belief that Rajirra was infact, not a bad character, but a good soul who was troubled by the time Katia arrived in Kvatch. This position stems from my perception of Rajirra’s interactions with Katia which I’ll try to explain in detail.
AMKitsune created a detailed explanation of Raj and Kat’s interactions which was pretty damning, and I think represents the mojority view of most Prequel readers, so I’ll use that as a comparison, but I happen to disagree with much of the assessment in that post.
There’s three general areas I wish to explore:
First is the reasoning for Rajirra’s rude behavior towards Katia
Second is the infamous murderboss fight, where Raj ditched Kat and locked her in.
And third being the comparison that Rajirra is no different than Sigrid or Gharug
So, I start with the first point, Rajirra’s rudeness:
It has to stem from a reason. Either Rajirra is already upset about something, and Kat has encountered her while Raj is preoccupied, or there’s something about Katia that Rajirra simply doesn’t like.
Now I’ve maintained that something had been troubling Raj from the beginning, something like she’s dealing with a pregnancy or other distressing issue, but the fact is, that is only my own speculation, and there’s no real evidence on which to base it other than my preconceived notions of how people interact.
So let’s look at the other possibility; that Rajirra simply takes one look at Katia and instantly dislikes her
From AMK’s post.
Okay, so yeah, this comes across as pretty assholish. Now I certainly don’t think you can include the fact that the sprite doesn’t leave the vicinity as evidence for her motives. Like it’s stated above, it’s probably a limitation of the program.
But let’s go back to her behavior. As I mentioned before, It always struck me as though Rajirra was moody because she’s troubled about something. I mean most folks who behave like that are upset about something and don’t wish to be bothered. Indeed, this is just speculation on my part, but anger or despair come from something.
Now it’s been suggested that Rajirra is rude simply because she doesn’t like Katia from the beginning, but why?. She’s been called an elitist snob and too good to be bothered by Kat
That’s certainly a possibility, but to be honest, I wouldn’t call Rajirra elitist, at least not in the high society sense. Rajirra is a working class girl as evidenced in the comic. She’s not dressed in fancy clothing, but in peasant garb.
When Raj is explaining her coming to Cyrodiil, (which was a civil discussion btw) you can see that she’s been through a difficult journey, given the tattered state of her clothing, and the arrows jutting from her pack.
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Rajirra has had to struggle and fight to eek out a living, taking odd jobs and enduring the predjudices of humans and elves She also talks about taking odd jobs around town ( To quote Raj )
I would surmise that Rajirra has an attitude more closely resembling how a person from the country might perceive a city dweller (city slicker). Seeing Katia as someone who has has an easy life of luxury compared to Rajirra’s one of struggle and toil.
I cite several reasons for this belief:
1: Katias speech
2: Katias apparel
3: Katias well kempt appearance
4: Katias youth and subsequent perceived inexperience and naivety.
Katia’s speech was an instant clue that she was not raised in what many khajiit would probably consider a ‘normal’ situation. The other characters in the story even mentioning that they’ve never heard a khajiit talk like a redguard.
Rajirra even commends Kat’s parents on providing her with a respectable upbringing.
Katia’s apparel would be another signal to Raj that Kat is not a typical working class khajiit. She’s wearing her mages robe the first time they met. Seeing her in such garb would be another confirmation that Kat comes from a life of ease, and excess.
Katia’s well kempt appearance was noted later on in Tavia’s shop when Raj made the remark about Katia’s well manicured nails. To quote the page: Raj would have had to notice this during their first encounter, since Kat was wearing the raiment gloves at this time. But this would further reinforce the perception of a non laborer.
Katia’s youth and subsequent perceived inexperience and naivety is something that I can imagine would bias an older khajiit. Many older people seem to be naturally skeptical of the abilities of someone younger than they, and unfairly pass judgement. Rajirra most likely sees Kat as an overprivileged, underexperienced and spoiled rich khajiit that she has little in common with.
So to summarize; If it’s not a preoccupation with other troubling matters that account for Rajirra’s rudeness, then I believe Raj suffers from the bitterness a poor, working class person might have toward those who come from priviledge. I at least think this is a reasonable explanation.
Is it fair that Raj acts this way? Does it excuse her? No, but it is understandable, at least to me. I can relate to Raj in that I am of the working class poor as well, and I do admire her for not being afraid to get down and dirty. But she still should be more cordial.
So yes, she is assholish, but for reasons I say are forgivable, or at least pityable.
And let’s not overlook the fact that at their next encounter, Rajirra is cordial, at least at the beginning. She actually takes time to talk with Kat in a civil manner. (That would signal to me that she was upset about something earlier)
Okay, so the next area of discussion concerning her dismissive behavior
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[/quote]
Okay, so clearly Rajirra iis outside in the snow and cold, she’s wet and not very happy, and she’s being distracted from completing her task by Katia. Someone whom she figures is incapable of doing the same cause they’ve not needed the skills to survive. She also get’s annoyed at the notion of Kat taking something that doesn’t belong to her.
I’d say that’s pretty commendable civic respect regarding taking the rope, and again, I can totally sympathize and relate to Raj’s desire to get back home so she can get some relief and comfort from the elements, not be kept outside chatting. I’d argue that anyone in that situation would be annoyed and curt.
Returning to AMK’s post:
Romantic involvement, or is it respect due to the bartender being of a kindered social status? She respects him because he labors just as she does?
Again, I’d surmise that Raj thinks of Katia as unsuitable for fighting imps given her presumption about Kat having a cushy, and easy life.
I agree wholeheartedly with the above. Something quite unpleasant must have occurred, and it’s impossible for us to know at this time. And yes, terrible events can scar one emotionally for life.
Is it acceptable? Again, without knowing what happened I can’t answer that, but I’d say it at least bears some consideration what she may have experienced, before judging Raj.
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This is where I TOTALLY DISAGREE! I do say this was a spur of the moment reaction driven purely out of fear. Rajirra had no intentions of betraying katia until the moment the murderboss appeared and she reacted out of sheer terror. She didn’t even stick around to collect any reward, which is proven in the comic.
It’s also been suggested by others that Rajirra had plotted from the beginning to kill Katia, and collect the reward. I can comfirm that is FALSE. Took the liberty of contacting the one person who could give a reliable answer. I contacted Kaz through Discord and asked him directly, which he has stated ANYONE is free to do.
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So there was no prearranged murder plot to begin with. I continued …..
Now that part had me worried when Kaz said she plotted in the short term sense, but then he replied with ‘snap judgement’, and made the rope cutting comparison. So that sure sounds like a spur of the moment decision to me.
But I was starting to waiver on the strength of my argument
Now I admit that including Katia into the blame mix was a bad move that was motivated primarily by defensive measures. I was feeling hurt, and I reacted poorly.
Afterwards, I wanted to reply in a way that didn’t sound like I was assessing blame to Kat, but I couldn’t find an acceptable solution, so I turned to Kaz again for advice…
So yeah, like I said earlier, it was a bad call on my part, and I retract my statement, but Kaz made a good point about how Rajirra was concerned about the level of risk. It goes back to when Rajirra says that she’s not a fighter. Imps and such are dangerous magical creatures, jobs better left to the Fighter’s Guild.
I started feeling a bit better afterward…...for a short while at least. But then I began to falter once more.
So I guess in the overall scheme of things, either possibility is valid. She may indeed be the bad individual that some believe, or she could be the flawed, but fundamentally good character that I propose. As Kaz stated, the amibguity surrounding her doesn’t preclude my assessment of her.
Now the final portion I wish to cover is the comparison of Rajirra to Sigrid and Gharug. Raj has been lumped into the same catagory as the others: As manipulative, coniving, devious criminal scum! I simply cannot do that!
So much has been said about how rudely Raj treated Kat. Well look how Sigrid and Gharug behaved, they were kind and receptive, AND TOTALLY SCHEMING BASTARDS! They were kind to Katia so they could lull her into a false sense of trust, all the while planning to screw her over. That sounds pretty damn cold hearted and sadistic to me.
Rajirra on the other hand, just wanted to be left alone. She was rude to Katia so she’d go away. If Raj had intended to take advantage of Kat, wouldn’t she also have put on an act of kindness in order to fool her?
The thing is, if the imp fight had gone as planned, then I certainly believe they would have collected the reward as planned, Rajirra would have returned the rope to Katia, and they would have continued on with their separate lives. So I simply cannot see Rajirra in the same damning light.
So to recap:
There was no premeditated plot to kill Kat.
Raj’s fleeing and subsequent locking of the door was indeed spur of the moment.
Raj’s lie to the shopkeeper was poorly contrived.
Raj fled without collecting any reward.
Her behavior towards Kat was rude, but the explanation is open to interpretation.
Raj was indeed civil during the encounter at the well, (so that reinforces my belief that she was troubled by some other issues earlier.)
This leads me to think of her not as a bad character, but as a flawed one. One that should at least be pitied.
I don’t absolve Raj of her actions. She committed a terrible act, but I just can’t accept that she’s beyond redemption.
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Elitism wasn't the best term to use on my part. I'd probably use something more along the lines of 'perceived superiority' now. For the reasons you gave, it makes sense for Rajirra to view Katia as having been through less than herself and not being as developed and 'valuable' a person as herself. (much like how a survival expert might look at a city dweller trying to survive in the jungle and think "God what a useless failure. They won't last a day out here alone. I'm glad I'm better at life than they are.")
Also, the part about her making a 'thought out' choice to leave as opposed to an instinctive one failed to consider 'snap decisions'. Choices made under time pressure, but not based on fight or flight instincts alone. Still, given the extra time to think that came after Rajirra left, I'd have hoped that she'd reconsider her actions and go back to do the 'right thing', but evidently that wasn't the case.
Finally, I don't hink anyone has been under the impression lately that Sigrid and Gro-Upp are 'nice people'. It's just that the only one of these three that has left Katia in a position where she had to actually fight for her life was Rajirra (the fact that the fight was actually player controlled and difficult to 'win' (get a good time) made it feel even more life threatening than other threats in the comic). Not intentionally, but that's still what happened. The kicker is that so far, we've seen no evidence of Rajirra displaying any signs of remorse for her actions. For all we know, she could be sitting at home crying her eyes out now after realising what she's done. This would undoubtedly change peoples view of her, but as far as we can see, she just ran off and that was that.
I've only recently woken up, so apologies if this is hard to read/incoherent or just plain wrong.
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I'm not sure why Rajirra of all characters has stirred up this kind of passion, but I blame the furries.
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But she's still a raging cunt.
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sorry.
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#demonlivesmatternot
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Have a comment Semia
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