On the second: I don't want Kaz to shoehorn anything on our accounts either. I want him to do what he's doing and enjoy his creation. If the story happens to include a redemption because that's what he was going to do anyway, then I'm confident it'll fit into the story and be good. If there is no redemption, then I'll find a way to be okay with that and the story will be better off for not having been siderailed.
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: That's an entirely accurate assessment, if I'm being completely honest, and yet everything I said stands.
I'm advocating for mercy. Mercy doesn't care whether its recipient deserves it; only whether they can become better. Redemption, when possible, is never not a good thing.
I'm also, more importantly, telling you that your vindictiveness is worrying. Multiple times now I've left it at a point where I thought everyone could be satisfied. I've entirely acknowledged, from the start, that she's been shown to be a bad person thus far, and that I just want to see if she can be more than that. But that doesn't seem to be enough. You seem dead-set on not only believing, but convincing everyone that because she's a bad person we have to do bad things to her. That the only way forward is to skewer the lady on the long arm of vengeance. It feels like you're using her fictional status as little more than a thinly veiled excuse for bloodlust.
You've seemed pretty cool on every subject except this one. I'm not asking you to change your opinion of her character, I'm not even asking you to stop stating it. Just stop telling us we're wrong for wanting to extend an olive branch, and especially quit the murder talk. Please.
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: Obviously they can’t be frenemies exactly as they are now; something would have to change. But the idea occurs to me because it’s a change I could see happening without being wildly out of character for either of them. And it’s just one idea, anyway.
And no one’s actually saying she gets a pass for being cute. It’s just part of the reason why we hope she turns out to be worthy of forgiveness.
I’m sorry, though, I’m starting to wonder if you’re being contrary on purpose. I’m hoping you’ll let me know otherwise.
LuminosityXVII: Yes and also that VR headset please, I know you ate the cookies. I dunno how you got Dad to cover for you, but I don't believe for one second he took them himself. Amen.
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: Okay so if your desires on the matter take her fictional status into account, then... I mean, sure. There's generally no moral argument for writing a story one way or another.
It's just that the degree of passion I've seen from you on this subject heavily implied to me that you didn't just want a fictional character to go sploot, you wanted a person to go sploot. It seemed to me that you would still take the same position even if all this were real, and that was fuggin creepin me out. If not, though, then we're just left with a difference of opinion that has no moral implications, and that's fine.
I will of course maintain my position that healthy conflict resolution does not include murder, and that I would personally love to see Raj turn out better than what we've seen so far. That said, what we've seen so far is admittedly worse than I'd remembered.
Hm. Maybe they could be ultimate frenemies? That could be fun. Like a kismesis (god I haven't used that word in ages), but probably platonic.
LuminosityXVII: Yes what DoomGuy said but also please deliver unto us that VR headset I asked for last Christmas, I left cookies and milk and everything. Amen.
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: Hey, in the end, I want Kaz to do what Kaz wants to do. If he was already gonna have them make up, great! If not, well. I trust Kaz, and fundamentally altering your comic to please fans does not a good story make. Nor a happy author. Nor a happy anyone, not for long.
And I don't intend to apologize for Raj, not at all. Her actions were reprehensible. I just 1) hope she can be better than what we've seen of her, and 2) am saying that that which one deserves and that which is right are often not the same thing. Justice comes in only where mercy cannot succeed. Complete condemnation is only for the completely irredeemable.
Speaking of which, Occam's Razor only gives you an idea what possibilities are most likely. It's a super useful tool for prioritizing possibilities that you want to test, but it's not enough to draw a conclusion from, not when anything important is on the line. It's certainly not enough to condemn a person with. Hence why priority #1 is finding out about Raj for sure.
Which is why I'd like to see Katia sock her one and then demand an explanation. Because she needs one, assuming she wants to have anything to do with Raj at all.
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: If you only try to do the right thing once and quit the first time it fails, you were never really trying. We can be better.
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And you're right, clearly it's not a story about healthy conflict resolution; just look at our main character, like you said. Her conflict "resolution" is about as unhealthy as it gets. Just not in a murdery way. Ultimate Vengeance wouldn't be the correct answer unless the main character were a wannabe Kratos.
But anyway, you and I haven't been speaking to what fits the story; just to what we would want to happen if it were all real and we cared nothing for the flow of narrative. And that's where all the murder talk bothers me. I understand wanting to protect Katia, totally, but it's just too vindictive, too soon. Even if we're just talking about what we want, we ought to at least find out whether she's redeemable before total condemnation is on the table. I was pissed as hell too, when she did the thing, but my first reaction would be to demand an explanation, not to immediately go for the jugular.
By the way, @Rick2tails: I think you said it pretty well, even if I'd like to see Raj turn out to be kinder after a good thrashing/pranking.
LuminosityXVII: @DOOMGUY11: Thanks, DoomGuy! I could see that potentially turning out to be true. We'd only find out if an attempt at reconciliation were made.
It's cause healthy conflict resolution is baller, yo.
Ain't nothing to be gained from just hurting a person because they hurt you first. If there's a way to make an enemy a friend, that is always the best outcome. And if you can do that, you'll usually learn there's more to someone than just what you saw when they slighted you.
If not, oh well. Do the minimum harm necessary to keep yourself safe. Then at least you'll know you tried to do the right thing.
LuminosityXVII: @PermanentFace: Okay I was being silly about it, but seriously: this talk of execution and especially neck-snapping is creeping me out, fictional character or no. I figure you probably don't really mean it, but just... I am concerned. Maybe be a little less murdery?
LuminosityXVII: @Raydio: Nah. The above overview is the "let's make everyone sound as bad as possible" highlight reel, not the whole-person view. Still makes a valid point, BUT in the end Katia's trying her damnedest to be better, and that's what counts.
Raj? I have no idea about canon Ra'Jirra other than that she's pretty and was a huge, but mayyybe-forgiveable-depending-on-the-circumstances asshole in the screentime she's had. I like the idea of who she could be if it turned out she had an understandable reason (like in Sashimi's version of things), but as it is I just want answers. And healthy conflict resolution, yo.
The bartender? Swell guy, all around. Everyone loves him at parties. Mostly cause he's serving the alcohol. Still counts.
LuminosityXVII: @DOOMGUY11: ArtRage has served me fairly well, would recommend. Not the most ridiculously powerful software in the world, but nice to work with and easily good enough for a range of applications.
There's also Krita, which is free and supposedly a professional-level tool. Haven't tried it, but I hear pretty good things about it.
LuminosityXVII: @DOOMGUY11: Depends! If you get specific, "anthropomorphic" refers to endowing an animal, god, or object with human traits. A process of making something more human would have to be involved.
So, from a creator's perspective: If the original artist that designed the Khajiit race drew them up from nothing with no inspiration from either cats or humans and they just happened to come out this way, then no, they're not anthropomorphic. Otherwise, they are. Conclusion? Unless the artist designs in a vacuum, yes, they're anthro cats.
From an in-universe perspective: The many shared biological characteristics of the sapient races of Tamriel heavily imply a common ancestry; the catlike traits of the khajiit are far more likely than the humanlike traits to be coincidental. What this means is that humans and khajiit probably split off at an earlier stage and developed in parallel. Khajiit most likely neither came from cats, nor ever developed to become "more human" than they were from the start. Conclusion? No, they're not anthro cats.
Thank you, thank you, I'll be defending my dissertation next week.
Dramatic Descriptions
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Keep doin what you’re doin, draggy.
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This combines at least four or five of my favorite things with perfect execution. I might cry.
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This just makes me so damn happy
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As it is, I'm laughing my ass off. Kaz? Thoughts?
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There are plenty of shovels if you want to help!
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On the second: I don't want Kaz to shoehorn anything on our accounts either. I want him to do what he's doing and enjoy his creation. If the story happens to include a redemption because that's what he was going to do anyway, then I'm confident it'll fit into the story and be good. If there is no redemption, then I'll find a way to be okay with that and the story will be better off for not having been siderailed.
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I mean, I can read between the lines here. But still. Thanks.
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I'm advocating for mercy. Mercy doesn't care whether its recipient deserves it; only whether they can become better. Redemption, when possible, is never not a good thing.
I'm also, more importantly, telling you that your vindictiveness is worrying. Multiple times now I've left it at a point where I thought everyone could be satisfied. I've entirely acknowledged, from the start, that she's been shown to be a bad person thus far, and that I just want to see if she can be more than that. But that doesn't seem to be enough. You seem dead-set on not only believing, but convincing everyone that because she's a bad person we have to do bad things to her. That the only way forward is to skewer the lady on the long arm of vengeance. It feels like you're using her fictional status as little more than a thinly veiled excuse for bloodlust.
You've seemed pretty cool on every subject except this one. I'm not asking you to change your opinion of her character, I'm not even asking you to stop stating it. Just stop telling us we're wrong for wanting to extend an olive branch, and especially quit the murder talk. Please.
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And no one’s actually saying she gets a pass for being cute. It’s just part of the reason why we hope she turns out to be worthy of forgiveness.
I’m sorry, though, I’m starting to wonder if you’re being contrary on purpose. I’m hoping you’ll let me know otherwise.
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Will someone please think of the critters??
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Well done.
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It's just that the degree of passion I've seen from you on this subject heavily implied to me that you didn't just want a fictional character to go sploot, you wanted a person to go sploot. It seemed to me that you would still take the same position even if all this were real, and that was fuggin creepin me out. If not, though, then we're just left with a difference of opinion that has no moral implications, and that's fine.
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I will of course maintain my position that healthy conflict resolution does not include murder, and that I would personally love to see Raj turn out better than what we've seen so far. That said, what we've seen so far is admittedly worse than I'd remembered.
Hm. Maybe they could be ultimate frenemies? That could be fun. Like a kismesis (god I haven't used that word in ages), but probably platonic.
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And I don't intend to apologize for Raj, not at all. Her actions were reprehensible. I just 1) hope she can be better than what we've seen of her, and 2) am saying that that which one deserves and that which is right are often not the same thing. Justice comes in only where mercy cannot succeed. Complete condemnation is only for the completely irredeemable.
Speaking of which, Occam's Razor only gives you an idea what possibilities are most likely. It's a super useful tool for prioritizing possibilities that you want to test, but it's not enough to draw a conclusion from, not when anything important is on the line. It's certainly not enough to condemn a person with. Hence why priority #1 is finding out about Raj for sure.
Which is why I'd like to see Katia sock her one and then demand an explanation. Because she needs one, assuming she wants to have anything to do with Raj at all.
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And you're right, clearly it's not a story about healthy conflict resolution; just look at our main character, like you said. Her conflict "resolution" is about as unhealthy as it gets. Just not in a murdery way. Ultimate Vengeance wouldn't be the correct answer unless the main character were a wannabe Kratos.
But anyway, you and I haven't been speaking to what fits the story; just to what we would want to happen if it were all real and we cared nothing for the flow of narrative. And that's where all the murder talk bothers me. I understand wanting to protect Katia, totally, but it's just too vindictive, too soon. Even if we're just talking about what we want, we ought to at least find out whether she's redeemable before total condemnation is on the table. I was pissed as hell too, when she did the thing, but my first reaction would be to demand an explanation, not to immediately go for the jugular.
By the way, @Rick2tails: I think you said it pretty well, even if I'd like to see Raj turn out to be kinder after a good thrashing/pranking.
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Correct that to By then for a little extra clarity
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It's cause healthy conflict resolution is baller, yo.
Ain't nothing to be gained from just hurting a person because they hurt you first. If there's a way to make an enemy a friend, that is always the best outcome. And if you can do that, you'll usually learn there's more to someone than just what you saw when they slighted you.
If not, oh well. Do the minimum harm necessary to keep yourself safe. Then at least you'll know you tried to do the right thing.
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Raj? I have no idea about canon Ra'Jirra other than that she's pretty and was a huge, but mayyybe-forgiveable-depending-on-the-circumstances asshole in the screentime she's had. I like the idea of who she could be if it turned out she had an understandable reason (like in Sashimi's version of things), but as it is I just want answers. And healthy conflict resolution, yo.
The bartender? Swell guy, all around. Everyone loves him at parties. Mostly cause he's serving the alcohol. Still counts.
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My healthy conflict resolutions have fight scenes.
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Now that I'm looking it up, though, it sounds like the khajiit are native to Tamriel, whereas humans and elves migrated there after?
Which still throws my would-be doctorate in the fire, even if the overall point would be conserved by sheer coincidence.
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There's also Krita, which is free and supposedly a professional-level tool. Haven't tried it, but I hear pretty good things about it.
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Fun fact! Hyenas are actually related more closely to cats than dogs. This fact is unrelated to anything, but you reminded me with that last comment.
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So, from a creator's perspective: If the original artist that designed the Khajiit race drew them up from nothing with no inspiration from either cats or humans and they just happened to come out this way, then no, they're not anthropomorphic. Otherwise, they are. Conclusion? Unless the artist designs in a vacuum, yes, they're anthro cats.
From an in-universe perspective: The many shared biological characteristics of the sapient races of Tamriel heavily imply a common ancestry; the catlike traits of the khajiit are far more likely than the humanlike traits to be coincidental. What this means is that humans and khajiit probably split off at an earlier stage and developed in parallel. Khajiit most likely neither came from cats, nor ever developed to become "more human" than they were from the start. Conclusion? No, they're not anthro cats.
Thank you, thank you, I'll be defending my dissertation next week.